Erik & Leonie's interview

— Erik and Leonie founded Pure Kakaw in 2018 after coming back from travelling in South and Central America.

Their intention was then clearly set: sharing the beauty of cacao with the world.

They’ve since developped a beautiful relationship with cacao and share it with us through this insightful interview!

Cacao Guide

Pure Kakaw

" I would love to see that ceremonial cacao becomes an example of how we can consciously consume our food. [...] I really hope that it can give people what it actually gave me: this heart-warming, homecoming in yourself, as a being of nature. "

N.B. : This article contains an affiliate link and a 10% discount code. These advantages are here to compensate the time and work we put in our project. Yet, we’re dedicated to staying objective in our analyses.
Enjoy them if you want to try new cacaos while supporting us

11th of May, 2022

The journey

What was your first encounter with traditional cacao?

Erik / It was in Guatemala with a friend of mine who invited me for a free-flow meditation at a festival, sitting in the Jungle next to the ocean. It grabbed my attention because I’ve heard about cacao before in the Netherlands, but I never experienced it. I was intrigued by the softness that it brought. I didn’t expect anything from it and it surprised me in a nice and positive way that I really enjoyed.

Leonie / It was in San Marcos, Guatemala, it was a dance night with a small ceremony, a girl was guiding it. And I remember having a really happy, free-flow and opened vibe. Then when I was walking home I could feel I had a super awake mind and a very happy body.

How did your use of cacao evolved through the years - and how are you using it today?

Leonie / I remember when I really started to drink cacao intentionally, it was in the community we lived in, in Nicaragua. I was very touched by the effect of cacao with yoga. I was in a training for becoming a yoga teacher and I thought it was such a beautiful combination. I was creating a practice where cacao and yoga could go very well together, so people could experience a very happy feeling in an explorative way.

Right now I drink it almost every day, around 20gr of cacao. I like to create a special moment once a week for a work session. And once a month when I feel that I need some « me time », I create a ceremonial moment at home, putting music on, making a cacao, doing whatever comes up.

Also I notice whenever I go on a journey with ceremonies it’s really a companion, an anchor. During intense experiences it can really bring me in a loving space.

Erik / At the beginning it was more in a ceremonial setting and later it turned into more of a morning routine or a daily drink. I definitely like playing with different recipes. I also don’t drink a lot of coffee so I like to have a nice cacao or mushroom drink instead to get some energy. I also often drink cacao with a group of people or friends.

What did cacao change for you personally?

Leonie / I really can’t imagine my life without cacao anymore! (laughs). It feels like it’s been a catalyst for so much things.

Erik / It’s always difficult to say because you don’t have any reference of how you would be if you wouldn’t have drink cacao these last six years. But it brought lots of beautiful things. Cacao goes hand in hand with personal development, so it helps and supports us as a catalyst as Leonie said, into getting more in touch with ourselves. I find cacao is a great companion for evolving into the world.

Also it creates a certain softness and positive attitude and a bubble of attention while drinking it with someone else or with a group. It helps to open up and communicate from the heart. I don’t want to say that it wouldn’t happen without cacao but it supports that and it’s beautiful to witness.

Leonie / On a really subtle level cacao brought me into feeling more that « This is Ok, you are perfect as you are. » It really brought me closer to being nature, that we are all nature and I admire how special it really is. It really feels like a mother, a wise loving mother and it helps connecting with that energy.

The brand

What made you want to build your own brand?

Erik / Well, I never wanted to have a brand, that’s something I’ve never actively thought! (laughs). Cacao is something that really intrigued us and that we found worth sharing. We wanted to use it in our own daily lives from Nicaragua back home in Holland and share it with people, gift it to friends, you know. At least to let people be more aware about it and see whether it’s something nice for them or not.

Leonie / I feel that it was so special that I really wanted to share it, it was really the feeling « People should know about this! ». It can’t be that people don’t know about this beautiful food, its history and effects. When I look back at it, it didn’t really felt like a conscious choice, it was really just about the fact that we needed to share it. And then it evolved into a whole thing!

Erik / Everyone has their own ideals or dreams of where they want to see the world moving towards. Either it’s nature preservation, helping people, changing capitalism or whatever it is. For me it felt like it was right in line with what I stand for, in the sense of bringing more softness and connection in our western culture. it was something that could support making a positive impact on both sides of the supply chain, and then it was natural to move into the next steps of starting Pure Kakaw.

How would you introduce traditional cacao to someone who never heard of it?

Leonie / I often tell people to think about the whole fruit of cacao. It’s very nutritious, it comes from the jungle, and it nourishes our bodies in a very deep sense. It also gives an effect that is really precious to a lot of people. It feels like a beautiful awake feeling, with a happy and heart-warming effect. It can also create a beautiful focus bubble with anything you are connected to in that moment. It’s really a gift from nature.

In a very few words we could say: « Cacao is a deeply nourishing heart-warming food. »

Erik / We mostly know cacao as an ingredient in chocolate, with some kind of dark sides to it. But it has been used as a sacred drink for a very long time, like thousands of years, and it has been used for its effects and its healthy substances. It can bring many interesting things like focus, energy, ecstatic feelings, happiness, connection… It supports and connects you to your heart area, and so it connects with yourself and the world around you. And that, I think, is a very welcomed energy.

What does 'ceremonial grade' mean to you?

Erik / Well, I don’t really like the word « ceremonial grade » so much because it’s used in many different ways. « Ceremonial grade », means there is an intention to be used in a ceremony and to use cacao as a plant medicine.

For us it really means that there is a very direct connection to the source. That you know the people involved in growing, that you know the land where it grows and how it grows. That the cacao has a certain quality standard, that is very clean and safe and healthy to drink.

Leonie / For me « ceremonial grade », is really about not only taking from the nature but really taking care that you support the place where it comes from. In the best way it’s nourishing each other. For me that’s the most important thing because there’s a sense of pureness and it’s constructive.

I don’t know all the definitions of « ceremonial grade », it’s used in very different ways, but this is how I would love every cacao to be if they call it ceremonial.

How would you define your relationship with the people farming and producing your cacao?

Erik / It’s super positive, we couldn’t be happier! We just came back from Peru, that was the first time we were at the farm there, it turned out to be the most beautiful experience and time. It touched us so deeply, it was so special!

How we’ve been taken in the family, how we inspired each other, how we learned about the ecological farming perspectives… And they were really interested in how we use and share cacao because they mostly work with chocolate makers. It was such a beautiful cross inspiration, there’s so much magic happening there! The grandmother didn’t speak any English but we had the most beautiful moments with her! Having that connection of cultures and lifestyles so far appart, it’s really dear to my heart.

And the same happened in Guatemala when we stayed there in October. There’s so much joy, because on one hand you have a business relationship but there is so much more than all the other business relationships that I’ve known in my life.

Leonie/ It really feels like a heart-connection. It’s funny you said it was a business relationship, because it really feels like a family! And cacao creates a common ground, with a really nice relationship, it’s like we’re using the same langage. We also share the same values and positive principles, it creates a solid base for a relationship.

How do you choose a new cacao to add to your range?

Erik / There’s never a clear plan. There’s a certain touch of magic I would say! There’s always some adventure involved, finding special places and finding these connections. Obviously there is the quality of the cacao, so we taste it to understand how it makes us feel and also the place: how and where it grows, the nature around, the biodiversity… There’s many different things basically that come together and we want to share something magical and unique.

I’m not easily satisfied, I’m looking for things that I would use in my own life and that mesmerize me in a way. So that’s my standard when looking for cacaos!

Insights

What kind of evolution would you like to see happening in the global ceremonial cacao world?

Leonie / I would love to see that ceremonial cacao becomes an example of how we can consciously consume our food. Also people realizing what cacao is really, because there’s still a lot to be done on that part! I really hope that it can give people what it actually gave me: this heart-warming, homecoming in yourself, as a being of nature.

Erik / I really hope it can support into more reforestation of natural areas in the world. It can inspire many other farmers to develop more agroforestry and have a positive impact on nature. And It can bring a lot of awareness and active choice of how people can consume for what they really stand for.

Your best memory linked to cacao?

Leonie / There are so much! For me it was in Colombia, it was the first time I saw Erik after spending five months traveling. I was a bit scared and cacao gave me such a comforting space. Not to feel the love immediately again, but to feel that « It was ok ». From there we knew we could connect on a true level based on where we both were. It really touched me.

Erik / It was such a beautiful time. From my side, I would say when we did a ceremony in San Marcos, Guatemala. It was a combination of cacao and mushrooms and the depth, the connection and the softness were really impressive. It has such a catalyzing role!

Also when we are sitting together with a group of friends, drinking cacao and connecting from that place I find it very interesting. And if I may add another one (laughs), during the micro-mornings when we combine [psylocibin] micro-dose, cacao and yoga. After it we can see that people really went through something, and being there together in this space, where everybody has so much emotions, joy, happiness, tears… It’s super powerful.

What does it bring you to share this experience together as a couple?

Erik / For me it would never be my ideal pick to work together with the relationship. It’s very complex and something that I never really wanted. But cacao touched us both in such a special way that we can feel we are very aligned about the decisions we make together. It’s so powerful in this way, it adds extra depth to everything.

Leonie / I cannot imagine our relationship without cacao! It really grabbed us at the beginning of our relationship. We are super different in how we work but we really complete each other even if of course it really has been a journey! I’m really proud about how we can now empower each other. I’ve always been mesmerized and super honored about this « cacao baby » we have brought to the world together.

Your favorite recipe/favorite way to prepare a cup of cacao?

Leonie / It’s always different but I have a specific one at the moment. It’s a very thick cacao espresso: cacao from Guatemala mixed with the one from Nicaragua, little bit of water, our Mushrooms Focus & Energy powder, cinnamon and then make a nice oat-milk foam with our milk foamer and pour it on top of the previous mix.

Erik / Now I’m really looking forward to the new batch of Peru that just came in! To make a little cacao shot water-based in an espresso cup, with little water so it becomes then thick and creamy and I add sometimes some cinnamon or cayenne. I’s also super delicious when you add a little bit of sweetener!

What’s the last thing that moved you lately?

Erik / When we were hiking in Peru, in the mountains with horses, we did a gratefulness ritual towards nature with someone who lived there. That energy amongst the sacred lakes, with the effect of altitude on our bodies, was so impressive and so pure, that it really moved me.

Leonie / Last week with our friends while we were camping we had this beautiful co-creative energy. We could be vulnerable with each other and it felt like a healing community in a very playful way. I’m also reading the book « The 15 commitments of conscious leadership » at the moment and I find it very interesting!

Do you have upcoming projects with Pure Kakaw?

Leonie / I would love to create more space to hold events and have more direct connections.

Erik / I would love to create more space for collaborations. And also to free up more time to continue creating through the brand and getting it to the next level in a global way.