Jordan's Interview

— Jordan founded The Cacao Club in 2016 as she started sharing cacao & holding safe spaces, aspiring to let people « bring the ritual home ».

In her early relationship with the plant, she understood the power of its carrier & catalyst caracteristics, adding up to its inherent medicinal properties. Through this prism, she had a clear vision of cacao being able to reconcile people with medicinal plants on a broader level.

The essence of The Cacao Club and what she wished to convey through her craft all fell into place seamlessly, as she was sitting down studying for her naturopathy and herbal medicine degree.

Below is the transcript of our insightful (and absolutely lovely) conversation. Read on and get a glimpse of her very own cacao journey through the development of The Cacao Club!

Cacao Guide

The Cacao Club

" The cacao itself and its flavor profile are important, but what really excites me about cacao and the different people that share it is the unique essence of each person and how that really comes accross with different cacao that you try, it’s so magic! "

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May 8th, 2023

Starting her journey

On "what's so special about cacao"

Jordan / The cacao itself and its flavor profile are important, but what really excites me about cacao and the different people that share it is the unique essence of each person and how that really comes accross with different cacao that you try, it’s so magic!

It doesn’t matter if there are so many people doing the « same thing », it’s gonna come accross so differently.
The people that need to hear from you will find you because you have something to share that no one else does.

How did cacao come into your life?

Jordan / I discovered cacao as I was broadly introduced to plant medecines. I was attending a week-end long retreat and that was the first time I was involved in that world. It was like taking the next step on my spiritual journey.

During one of the down days, someone offered to serve some cacao as an optional thing to the participants, introducing us to the concept of ceremonial cacao and I obviously have never heard of that.

I remember my whole body was like « What IS this? », hearing someone speak about chocolate in this way that was so sacred!

Before that, in my experience, chocolate was always associated to something to feel deeply guilty about, and hearing it to be presented as a healing, sacred plant triggered this full-body experience of wanting to know more. I remember something clicked at this moment.

The experience was really simple and was about sharing cacao in this context, more than making it a proper ceremony.

Following this retreat, a couple of friends who live in Guatemala sent me a big block of cacao, and it got stuck for a while in my cupboard as I didn’t really know what to do with it, how to prepare it or use it.

So it wasn’t until I traveled to South America for a yoga teacher training, almost a year after this experience, and spent lots of time in Ecuador where I had a proper traditional cacao ceremony that I understood what cacao could bring. It was again very simple, yet powerful.

And then I became the cacao lady after this ceremony, always sharing it during my yoga trainings.

Coming back to London after that trip, it just continued, I needed to share it, especially in this context where people experience such high levels of stress and disconnection, I felt like this was needed here.

How did The Cacao Club came to be?

Jordan / I started studying herbal medicine and naturopathy around that time, so when I came back from South America, everything started to fall into place.

I knew I couldn’t give people the same experience that I had back there. However it felt natural to marry the worlds of cacao and herbal medicine as I was thinking about a way to share cacao that would help people who needed it, who weren’t necessarily taking care of their emotional health, involved in a spiritual journey or in a daily meditative practice.

It was highlighted even more as in the course of my studies, I started to have 1 :1 consults with patients who would bring up health issues stemming from extreme anxiety, stress, not taking care of their body… So it was just really obvious that this was needed and that’s how it all came to be.
The development of the recipes actually came as I was sitting in class.

Finding purpose

On "focusing on cacao's healing potential"

Mathieu / Hearing you speak, and having in mind what you share with your customers, it is pretty clear that the synergy created between medicinal herbs and cacao, and the healing power that results from this combination is something very dear to you. I’m really curious to know how you decided to make this angle your priority. Because when you look at ceremonial cacao’s big picture, this is a topic that isn’t covered this much, and that, in my opinion, would deserve much more attention.

Jordan / I can tell you the exact stream of thoughts as it was happening.

I was sitting in class, listening to the different types of ways to prescribe herbal medicines.

Basically there are two main ways : you can either make an alcohol tincture, which is the best way to get it straight into the system, or you can make herbal teas.

In both cases you’re drawing out the medicinal properties, with alcohol or water.

We were talking about compliance and how tinctures taste terrible. And similarly with teas, medicinal herbs mostly don’t taste good, they are not all like chamomile or liquorice, the ones we’re used to drinking.

I had been working with cacao already, and I thought if you can extract the medicinal properties from a plant, why not mix them with cacao, then people will just want to drink them because it’ll be delicious ! That was litteraly the train of thoughts.

Cacao is obviously a carrier and a facilitator for a healing journey. So at this point, cacao was more the focus in terms of the ritual, the mindfulness aspect — but what I wanted to do at the time was make herbs relevant and cool, rebrand herbs in a way.

Mathieu / So you basically designed your own medicine with cacao being the carrier and herbs being the healing substance?

Jordan / Exactly! And from there I desgined my products, found the name « The Cacao Club », started prototyping with litlle trays in my kitchen, made a packaging super quickly. I had the discs there and started talking about it and sharing it in my circles.

Growing into the concept

On "holding circles while starting the craft of your cacao discs"

Jordan / I started sharing the spaces and the bigger idea came, it was like « Ok, come to the ceremony, come to the ritual, experience the feeling and then take the ritual home with you. »

That’s why I never did big blocks, I always wanted to keep it very accessible.

That’s how I see The Cacao Club being and what differentiates us, I wanted it to be something that meets people where they’re at. Something that also suits the mordern an urban living, and was like « how can we make this something that people who live busy lives and need that connection to spirit and nature can access? »

The balance is : staying true to the traditions, honoring the history, the wisdom, but then also staying relevant.

That’s where I see our products being, they’re like the gateway for people. They can come through and try ours, and then go on and explore with other cacaos if they want to go deeper. This is like an entry point.

Mathieu / From what I understood, your personal experience also played an important role in how you designed those circles and the spaces you wanted to offer.

Jordan / Totally, I wanted to hold safe spaces where people can come as they are, to be themselves, to show up in this place and not feel like they « have to » do anything.

There was this whole other thing that was going on in my life that kind of stemmed from being a model and working in the fashion industry, everything being about image… I was trying to find who I was, inside the shell.

So it was like « come and just be as you are, there’s no need tro try to be cool or anything other than your authentic expression ». This idea was growing within me, alongside the development of the products, the herbal medicine and all of that.

So some people were drawn to those spaces and it grew organically.

Mathieu / You attracted people that needed those spaces and therefore needed your own way of sharing cacao, it comes full circle with how we started our conversation!

Jordan / Exactly, which is surprising when you’re in the middle of it but which makes perfect sense in hindsight. People are drawn to different brands of cacao because they’re drawn to the essence of the person behind it.

For me it’s always been women, women who have distorted relationship with food or their body and are willing to feel safe.
Even now that I run my course, it’s always women.

Crafting the right medicine

On "coming up with the recipes"

Mathieu / I’ve been through your early posts on Instagram and I was impressed to find that some of the recipes you had at the time are still the same today !

Jordan / Yeah, they all came in that moment and I never changed them. Wrongly or rightly. It wasn’t even about the taste, I never sat down and developed them from a taste point of view.
Because I had in my mind all of the different medicinal properties of each plant and herb. When me make a prescription to a patient, we’re never thinking about how it tastes — unless it’s full of really strong plants then you might add a bit of liquorice to make it a little sweet.

So that’s exactly how I was thinking about this : « it doesn’t matter how it tastes, just get the medicine in! » (laughs)

So you had 4 recipes and started experimenting with those yourself ?

Jordan / I had 3 recipes : Calm, Sleep, Focus.
The 4th one came when a woman who was very involved in women empowerment came to me and asked if we could make an event together and if I could come up with a recipe for this specific event that became Intimacy.

So that one I kind of thought about more in terms of the flavor and how that would be this really luxurious and delicious tonic that’d help support the divine feminine.
It wasn’t destined to become another product but it just stuck because it became so popular.

The 5th is Ceremony, which is just pure cacao and came later as well.

Mathieu / There are some inclusions in your discs like coconut flakes, rose petals or lavender flowers, I’m curious to know how you actually incorporate the plants and herbs in your recipes.

Jordan / I did experiment with different options, like making herbal oil for example, but it wasn’t sustainable as a production process. So all of the herbs are in powdered form, and the rose and lavender are in the form of edible essential oil, the petals and flowers being additional inclusions.

Mastering the making process

On "the evolution of your process"

Mathieu / Since we started talking about your process, I’d like to ask you some questions about how it evolved. At the really beginning, The Cacao Club itself was kind of a blend, you were holding circles, making your own discs as well as reselling cacao from other makers.

There were different spheres inside your cacao world and at some point you decided to turn it into your brand with its own identity and to focus on the synergies we’ve been talking about. Can you share some insights on the path you’ve followed while merging those different worlds into one beautiful brand ?

Jordan / My goodness, it’s so interesting to go down memory lane… It has been such a journey!

I started making it just in my kitchen and then, as cacao started growing in terms of popularity and offer, I figured it’d be a good idea to have other brands’ cacao available for people to be able to try different ones and find what’d suit them. It also brought me so much personally in getting to know the people behind those brands and making beautiful connections.

It reinforced this feeling of being part of a community and I feel like it was such a good thing to do, looking back.

It definitely shaped my way of doing things. On a practical level for instance, at some point, orders were becoming too much for me to do it alone in my kitchen without having proper equipment. At the same time, Elisa & JuanRa from VaiCacao (which was part of the brands I would resell) and I started a conversation about using their very own cacao for the making of my discs, and it turned out they would take care of the production as well.

So they made The Cacao Club’s cacao for a year or so! We had a strong connection and I was glad we could make it happen, I love them so much, they are trully beautiful people.

At some point I had to move back from London to Australia, and I had to reframe the way I was doing everything. It became too much to handle this production collaboration so I figured out I’d have to do it myself, in-house.

That’s also when we stopped reselling other people’s cacao to completely focus on our products.

Are you doing the whole bean-to-bar process yourself ?

Jordan / Exactly, since I moved back I have my own production unit so I buy the beans, do the import, and roast them, winnow them, stone-grind the whole and turn them into discs again. I do have my helpers when it comes to having a big production run, but it still is an enormous job, besides handling the brand.

How did you choose the beans you're making your cacao with, as it serves as a basis for your blends, as well as a pure disc on its own?

Jordan / Again, it’s been such a big journey with finding the right cacao.

At the really beginning I started in my kitchen buying other people’s ceremonial cacao, and from there came the question, which I’m sure is what you spend your time trying to answer : what is ceremonial cacao?
Back when I started this business, no one could really tell me, even the people that I was buying the cacao from couldn’t really answer. I then felt kind of guilty to sell ceremonial cacao, as I was afraid that I wasn’t doing it properly.

So the process developed into having that connection with the founders of VaiCacao, hearing about their story, their farm, their passion for it. They’d send me those little sample bags of their whole range, and we tried a different one each consecutive day, and it was amazing to feel the difference between each. So I picked my favourite one from their range and they would produce the discs with it for the time being.

When I went in-house, the question came back. I looked at Ruk’u’x Ulew, The Mayan Wisdom Project and some others, until I found FEDECOVERA, once again through my connection with Elisa & JuanRa.

They also sell their cacao and knowing that they had given it the green light trully helped me making this decision. On top of that, this cooperative ticks all the boxes of honoring the plant and the farmers involved, being devoted to sustainability and agroforestry, plus I was able to get it to Australia.

So it was a mixture of all those things and I never wanted to compromise on one of those.

The last Insights

How did your use of cacao evolved through the years — and how are you using it today?

Jordan / Probably less and less, like once a week. I would sit down with my husband and — probably like you guys do and like Couples Cacao do — it’s our relationship tool, it’s our coming together, our check-in.

Or tomorrow for example I’m meeting with my designer who’s also one of my best friends and I haven’t seen her in a while so we’ll sit, meditate together, drink cacao and then get creative!

So it’s usually with someone else, or if I’m really lost and struggling, I’ll sit down on my own. (laughs)

How do you define ‘Ceremonial grade’ ?

Jordan / Hmmm, love that question. Definitely honoring the source, honoring the tradition, honoring the people who grow and produce the cacao. And it’s also very important to have a relationship with the plant, with the spirit of cacao. It’s not just a commodity, not something you can just use and take, and to me it is very important to be aware of that.

I think you can tell when people are « just selling » cacao or if the cacao is speaking through them. So I would definitely not buy cacao from anyone who I couldn’t really feel that from.

In a nutshell, being in right relationship with cacao would be how I would define it, and that would be an umbrella statement for all of those things.

Your best memory linked to cacao?

Jordan / Oh my… Every memory of the last 5 years has cacao in it so it’s quite hard to pick one!

I’m tossing up between two, the first one is like, cacao splattered kitchen walls, trying to make discs. This is in hindsight though, not in the moment, cause in the moment you’re like « oh what am I doing with my life ». (laughs)

And second, that’s just those times you’re with people and you can tell they’re feeling it, you’re feeling it. Seeing the people you’d never thought would be so touched, healing from this medicine. Witnessing that they discover a tool that they could come back to if needed. There are my favorite memories, just seeing the medicine work its magic.